"What if an informal meeting of 2 or more council members has been going on say every Monday afternoon at a prearranged place and time for many years? Would such a meeting then be considered a public meeting?"
You see, public meetings are required to keep minutes which must be made public at the request of any citizen and I had been making requests for minutes that were being denyed me.
For those who might not be aware, Frayda S Bluestein is the go-to-gal that with the North Carolina School of Government that people like Greensboro City Attorney, S. Mujeeb Shah-Khan go to for advice on legal matters concerning government. Rather than allow my comment to be made public, Ms Bluestein decided to hold it in moderation and e-mail me the following reply:
"On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Bluestein, Frayda Swrote:
Hi Billy:
Thanks for your comment:
"What if an informal meeting of 2 or more council members has been going on say every Monday afternoon at a prearranged place and time for many years? Would such a meeting then be considered a public meeting?"
The answer depends upon whether the council members are considered to be a "public body" under the statute. The statute defines "public body" as:
"any elected or appointed authority, board, commission, committee, council, or other body of the State, or of one or more counties, cities, school administrative units, constituent institutions of The University of North Carolina, or other political subdivisions or public corporations in the State that (i) is composed of two or more members and (ii) exercises or is authorized to exercise a legislative, policy-making, quasi-judicial, administrative, or advisory function."
So the question is whether these people are elected or appointed by the council as a "bod" to carry out specific functions, or whether they do this on their own or for more informal communication and ongoing relations or information gathering purposes, but not as an intentionally created or sanctioned body.
I hope this is helpful.
Frayda"
I then replied to Ms Bluestein:
"Frayda,
For 18 years, Greensboro Mayor Robbie Perkins, Greensboro Councilwoman Nancy Vaughan, other members of council and local developers have held a weekly Monday afternoon luncheon at a restaurant known as Anton's until the restaurant closed a few weeks ago. This is where local policy is hammered out. I've asked the City of Greensboro for minutes of these meetings but they refuse. I find it utterly absurd to think that a meeting could go on for 18 years
and no fall into ""any elected or appointed authority, board, commission, committee, council, or other body of the State, or of one or more counties, cities, school administrative units, constituent institutions of The University of North Carolina, or other political subdivisions or public corporations in the State that (i) is composed of two or more members and (ii) exercises or is authorized to exercise a legislative, policy-making, quasi-judicial, administrative, or advisory function."" at least part of the time if not all the time. Do you not agree?"
Ms Bluestein's final reply:
"On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 8:17 AM, Bluestein, Frayda Swrote:
Hi Billy:
I can't really render an opinion about 18 years worth of meetings about which I don't know the specific facts. I can say that in order for a meeting to fall within the statute, there would have to be a majority of the members of council present, or an appointed or elected group serving as a committee of the council, and the conversation would have to relate to city business, as opposed to purely social interaction. If those factors are not present, then the open meetings law is not triggered.
Frayda"
Now, considering the list of e-mail addresses of people invited to attend these Monday's At Anton's Meetings and the fact that invitations were being sent by none other than Dena Keesee, Executive Secretary, Office of the City Manager at the behest of then Assistant City Manager Andrew Scott, these meetings would appear to be Greensboro City business but when I submitted a Public Information Request asking for minutes of said meetings I was told no such minutes existed even though we all know from published media reports that the Monday's At Antons meetings went on for 18 years until the closing of Antons and are probably still going on somewhere else today.
The e-mail addresses and e-mail proof from just 1 of these meetings:
"Ms Bluestein,
I just received the following e-mail gleaned from a PIRT from the City of Greensboro as to the e-mails of Andrew Scott, then Assistant City Manager of the City of Greensboro. Make careful note of who is in attendance and please REPLY ALL. Thanks -Billy
"awinstead@dmj.com
bandia@greensborolaw.com
bjennings@biscuitville.com
CSeeger@dentalez.com
Dmcdonald@hmn-law.com
don.vaughan@vaughanlaw.com)
jsipsis@triad.rr.com
lee@birchdevelopment.com
mfox@tuggleduggind.com
pcoates@pckb-law.com
randy@centralcarolinaconcrete.com
rrcobb@abercrombieoil.com
rbencini@earthlink.net
stanhope@naipt.com
thall@windsorinvestments.com
From: Keesee, Dena on behalf of Scott, Andrew
To: Tony Collins; Scott, Andrew; Art Winstead (awinstead@dmj.com); Bert Andia (bandia@greensborolaw.com);
Burney Jennings (bjennings@biscuitville.com); Chuck Seeger (CSeeger@dentalez.com); David W McDonald
(Dmcdonald@hmn-law.com); Don Vaughan (don.vaughan@vaughanlaw.com); Jim Galyon; Jerone Pearson
(jdp14@roadrunner.com); Jimmy Sipsis (jsipsis@triad.rr.com); Lee Porter (lee@birchdevelopment.com);
"Michael A (mike) Murray"; Michael S Fox (mfox@tuggleduggind.com); Mike Barber (mikebarberlaw@aol.com);
Paul D. Coates (pcoates@pckb-law.com); Randy Buchanan (randy@centralcarolinaconcrete.com); Randy Cobb
(rrcobb@abercrombieoil.com); Rob Bencini (rbencini@earthlink.net); Perkins, Robbie; Stanhope Johnson
(stanhope@naipt.com); Tom Hall (thall@windsorinvestments.com)
; Tommy Anton
Subject: RE: Anton"s at Noon
Date: Monday, August 12, 2013 9:51:23 AM
Mr. Scott is out of town and will not be able to join you. Thank you for the invite.
Dena Keesee
Dena Keesee
Executive Secretary
Office of the City Manager
PO Box 3136, Greensboro, NC 27402
T: 336.373.2002 / F: 336.373.2117
From: Tony Collins [mailto:tcollins@collinsgalyon.com]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 9:46 AM
To: Scott, Andrew; Art Winstead (awinstead@dmj.com); Bert Andia (bandia@greensborolaw.com);
Burney Jennings (bjennings@biscuitville.com); Chuck Seeger (CSeeger@dentalez.com); David W
McDonald (Dmcdonald@hmn-law.com); Don Vaughan (don.vaughan@vaughanlaw.com); Jim Galyon;
Jerone Pearson (jdp14@roadrunner.com); Jimmy Sipsis (jsipsis@triad.rr.com); Lee Porter
(lee@birchdevelopment.com); 'Michael A (mike) Murray'; Michael S Fox (mfox@tuggleduggind.com);
Mike Barber (mikebarberlaw@aol.com); Paul D. Coates (pcoates@pckb-law.com); Randy Buchanan
(randy@centralcarolinaconcrete.com); Randy Cobb (rrcobb@abercrombieoil.com); Rob Bencini
(rbencini@earthlink.net); Perkins, Robbie; Stanhope Johnson (stanhope@naipt.com); Tom Hall
(thall@windsorinvestments.com); Tommy Anton
Subject: Anton's at Noon
Hope to see you today at Anton’s
Tony "
I suspect Ms Bluestein's e-mail box will be filled with e-mails from desperate Greensboro politicians and city officials upon her return from her vacation as hiding 18 years of public records is going to get very messy.
